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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Aug 20, 2009 4:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: black muddy river

good song, or bad song? i don't know, help me decide. what are some good versions? i've had the damn thing in my head all day for some reason.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Aug 20, 2009 6:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

great song

In an interview in 1987 Garcia spoke about Black Muddy River;

"Black Muddy River is about the perspective of age and making a decision about the necessity of living in spite of a rough time, and the ravages of anything else that's going to come at you. When I wrote it, I was writing about how I felt about being forty five years old and what I've been through. And then when I was done with it obviously it was for the Dead."

Played 66 times...
Date Venue
12-15-86 Oakland Coliseum Arena, Oakland, Ca.
12-27-86 Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center, Oakland, Ca.
12-31-86 Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center, Oakland, Ca.
01-28-87 San Francisco Civic Auditorium, San Francisco, Ca.
03-01-87 Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center, Oakland, Ca.
03-24-87 Hampton Coliseum, Hampton, Va.
03-29-87 The Spectrum, Philadelphia, Pa.
04-02-87 The Centrum, Worcester, Ma.
04-06-87 Meadowlands Arena, East Rutherford, N.J.
04-11-87 UIC Pavilion, Chicago, Il.
04-18-87 Irvine Meadows Amphitheatre, Irvine, Ca.
04-19-87 Irvine Meadows Amphitheatre, Irvine, Ca.
05-02-87 Frost Amphitheatre, Stanford U., Palo Alto, Ca.
05-10-87 Laguna Seca Recreation Area, Monterey, Ca.
06-13-87 County Fairgrounds, Ventura, Ca.
06-19-87 Greek Theatre, U. of California, Berkeley, Ca.
06-27-87 Alpine Valley Music Theatre, East Troy, Wi.
07-02-87 Silver Stadium, Rochester, N.Y.
07-08-87 Roanoke Civic Center, Roanoke, Va.
08-11-87 Red Rocks Amphitheatre, Morrison, Co.
08-18-87 Compton Terrace Amphitheatre, Chandler, Az.
09-08-87 Providence Civic Center, Providence, R.I.
09-12-87 Capital Centre, Landover, Md.
09-16-87 Madison Square Garden, New York, N.Y.
09-19-87 Madison Square Garden, New York, N.Y.
10-02-87 Shoreline Amphitheatre, Mountain View, Ca.
11-06-87 Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center, Oakland, Ca.
11-15-87 Long Beach Arena, Long Beach, Ca.
12-28-87 Oakland Coliseum Arena, Oakland, Ca.
02-13-88 Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center, Oakland, Ca.
03-17-88 Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center, Oakland, Ca.
03-24-88 The Omni, Atlanta, Ga.
03-30-88 Meadowlands Arena, East Rutherford, N.J.
04-08-88 The Centrum, Worcester, Ma.
04-14-88 Rosemont Horizon, Rosemont, Il.
04-22-88 Irvine Meadows Amphitheatre, Irvine, Ca.
06-17-88 Metropolitan Sports Center, Bloomington, Mn.
06-26-88 Pittsburgh Civic Arena, Pittsburgh, Pa.
07-29-88 Laguna Seca Recreation Area, Monterey, Ca.
08-26-88 Tacoma Dome, Tacoma, Wa.
09-02-88 Capital Centre, Landover, Md.
09-08-88 The Spectrum, Philadelphia, Pa.
09-14-88 Madison Square Garden, New York, N.Y.
09-18-88 Madison Square Garden, New York, N.Y.
10-02-88 Shoreline Amphitheatre, Mountain View, Ca.
10-14-88 Miami Arena, Miami, Fl.
10-20-88 The Summit, Houston, Tx.
12-11-88 Long Beach Arena, Long Beach, Ca.
02-06-89 Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center, Oakland, Ca.
04-03-89 Pittsburgh Civic Arena, Pittsburgh, Pa.
04-12-89 Rosemont Horizon, Rosemont, Il.
05-06-89 Frost Amphitheatre, Stanford U., Palo Alto, Ca.
07-12-89 Robert F. Kennedy Stadium, Washington, D.C.
08-18-89 Greek Theatre, U. of California, Berkeley, Ca.
10-14-89 Meadowlands Arena, East Rutherford, N.J.
10-22-89 Charlotte Coliseum, Charlotte, N.C.
12-06-89 Oakland Coliseum Arena, Oakland, Ca.
12-27-89 Oakland Coliseum Arena, Oakland, Ca.
03-14-90 Capital Centre, Landover, Md.
04-02-90 The Omni, Atlanta, Ga.
06-09-90 Cal Expo Amphitheatre, Sacramento, Ca.
12-28-90 Oakland Coliseum Arena, Oakland, Ca.
08-13-91 Cal Expo Amphitheatre, Sacramento, Ca.
06-24-95 Robert F. Kennedy Stadium, Washington, D.C.
07-05-95 Riverport Amphitheatre, Maryland Heights, Mo.
07-09-95 Soldier Field, Chicago, Il.( one of my favorites)





This post was modified by user unknown on 2009-08-21 01:22:01

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Poster: Yankee9 Date: Aug 20, 2009 11:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

IMHO, both 5/10/87 and 3/30/88 where the greatest versions of this tune. Both in the encore position.

I love how Bobby softly utters, "Manana" right after the band encores with BMR on the 3/30/88. An overall great show!!!!

This post was modified by Yankee9 on 2009-08-21 06:51:25

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Aug 20, 2009 9:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

that's a Garcia quote and not Hunter?

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Poster: user unknown Date: Aug 21, 2009 9:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

it was attributed to Jerry at deadlists

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Aug 21, 2009 9:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

thats interesting because not only did Jerry not write lyrics, but the quote that it obviously was for the Grateful Dead is something Hunter has said before. Jerry wrote next to no music even ( let alone lyrics ) for his own band so who else would he be writing for?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Aug 21, 2009 9:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

John, you're right - it's definitely a Hunter quote. It's in the Blair Jackson Garcia book on page 359.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Aug 21, 2009 10:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

why thank you my friend. Although the words " John, you're right " always sound even better when they come from my wife : )

Hey my friend, are you still enjoying that Peter Kaukonen? Have you heard his set from this one? As for the rest I'd rather just put on the old Airplane and Starship ( the real Starship ) albums

http://www.archive.org/details/JStarship2006-08-12Schoeps

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Aug 21, 2009 11:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

Yeah - I don't hear those words too often at home either (and if you'd been eavesdropping you'd have heard me get an earful of the opposite a minute ago - damn but it's a tough life!).

Definitely still very much enjoying Peter Kaukonen, a criminally under appreciated guitar talent to my mind. Thanks for the Starship link - but I think I sent it to you a while back. Truly what goes around comes around! Stay well, my far northern friend!

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Aug 21, 2009 4:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

gee and to think I thought I was hipping you to something good. Dang! Hope all is well with you too my friend

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Poster: user unknown Date: Aug 21, 2009 4:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

I stand corrected.

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Poster: sweetwilliam Date: Aug 20, 2009 5:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

Rochester 7/2/87 is always the definitive version for me.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Aug 21, 2009 12:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

The Rochester 1987 version that is mentioned is very good

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Poster: Jerrob Hungar Date: Aug 21, 2009 1:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

In my humble opinion, this is a great song.

You've probably seen this before, but I'll post the link for those who haven't.

http://arts.ucsc.edu/gdead/agdl/stiller.html

The final one is the one that has most emotional impact on me but then, I haven't listened to them all yet.

This is also a favourite from the 2nd April 1990.

http://www.dead.net/features/march-30-april-5-2009

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Poster: skies Date: Aug 21, 2009 2:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

To listen to your topics explanations is a wonderfull way to start my day with GD forum ! thanks ,poets of the Grateful Dead !

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Poster: ganges Date: Aug 21, 2009 5:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

Great song, thanks Alan for the 2 links, listening to the '90 version and reading about the lyrics in such detail was really nice, I know this site but wouldn't have gone there today without you!

It's interesting that they didn't play BMR for 4 years until about 2 weeks before the last show and the "end".

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Poster: Jerrob Hungar Date: Aug 21, 2009 5:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

Yes Günther, it's almost too sad to contemplate. When he sings 'the last Muddy River', it gives my heart strings a tug.

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Poster: ned the head Date: Aug 21, 2009 4:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

This song was on my mind a few weeks back. It was obviously triggered by the ending of a book I had just read; Beneath the Wheel by Hermann Hesse. While looking at the lyrics I was also reminded of another book I had just re-read; Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. There was a lot of Shakespeare stuff in that book and it made the point that "the slings and arrows" are what makes life worth living.
I searched and listened to the first time I saw them play it (Hampton '87). I liked the placement in the second set rather than as an encore. An encore should be more upbeat (IMHO), leave you pumped. Kind of a downer, but sweet, leaving a show on that note.

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Poster: ganges Date: Aug 21, 2009 5:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

Ned, I just reread some Hermann Hesse recently, too, I read everything by him years ago, and I found out that he also passed away on August 9th in his sleep, just as Jerry and on the same date, thought that was very interesting, 2 people that mean a lot to me.

Brave New World I might have to go back to, read it a LONG time ago, with T. Leary, "Be Here Now" by R.Alpert (Ram Das) and others, and still have those books in the shelves, actually just had them in my hands 2 weeks ago when I was remodeling the house.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 21, 2009 11:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

Hermann Hesse is wonderful :)

I remember reading Siddhartha in high school and discovering the Grateful Dead along with the sacred herb...

The imagery and music of Brokedown Palace always brought back the images that my mind weaved while reading Siddhartha, especially when he reaches Nirvana down by that river...

Ahhhhhhh... I feel good and nostalgic right now :)

(8-21-72 Playin' is catalyzing deja vu and other good feelings as I type... hurrah hurrah... just what I needed as I dropped my lover at the airport this morning)

Love coming here... almost always makes me giggle

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Poster: Jerrob Hungar Date: Aug 24, 2009 6:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

They say good things come in threes!
Love the idea of matching Hermann Hesse books to GD music...I suppose Dire Wolf for Steppenwolf is too obvious...How about The Glass Bead Game and Terrapin... http://www.glassbeadgame.com/

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 24, 2009 11:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

I never thought of matching Dire Wolf to Steppenwolf but I can see how it fits - both have quite a dark tone to them!

How about Demian and The Other One Suite?

p.s. Thanks for the suggestion of Glass Bead Game... gonna check it out when I have the chance. Terrapin is one of the first Dead songs I ever heard... :)

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Poster: bbbrew Date: Aug 21, 2009 7:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

I agree with you ned, BMR is a downer of a encore. I like the tune and lyrics, but not as the final tune of a show.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Aug 21, 2009 5:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

Not a great song, but a very good one- one of the better latter day Jerry tunes, IMO. Perfectly suited to the encore slot it eventually settled into (I'll take it over "Heaven's Door" any day).

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Poster: ned the head Date: Aug 21, 2009 5:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

I was looking for Norma Waterson's version, didn't find it, but found this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzQZoR_YTkA

Bob Dylan doing it 4-6-92, no video, audio not great, words mostly indistinguishable

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Aug 21, 2009 7:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

for some reason, i thought they started playing it in 82. after listening to several versions, i really can't get dig it. too depressing.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Aug 21, 2009 9:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

As I am sure you know Touch of Grey and Throwing Stones both first appeared in 82, but Black Muddy River was written just before they recorded it in 87, according to Hunter

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Aug 21, 2009 9:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

but they played it at the "comeback" show in december of 86 - right? I could swear that was first time played and that I heard it. Seems like I caught it the first 5 or so times....Seemed "poignant" with his recent troubles.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Aug 21, 2009 9:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: black muddy river

First played in December, recorded in January. I guess that counts as 'just before'.